Dao in DDJ (2)

In response to my use of Dao de jing ch. 25 as evidence that DAO4 can refer to a metaphysical entity, Steve Angle wrote,

>We're essentially told here that there is some *thing*--the Song Neo-Confucians would have called it the Great Ultimate--that pre-exists any particular things (like Heaven or Earth). This thing is rather obviously some kind of metaphysical entity. From other passages in the text, it is plausible to conclude that this thing (the "mother of heaven and earth") is closely connected with the cosmic process of continual transformation: perhaps it represents the very beginning, or pre-beginning, of this process.

>Now, is this thing a/the "dao"? Well, that's not what the text says. The text says that its author will refer to the thing with the word "dao," which if we're following Hansen's argument means that the author has decided to think of the thing (=cosmic processes/nature?) as a (or the) way of living/doing/being in its own right.

I'm not sure I understand your interpretation, Steve. Let me set out what I think you are saying, and you can correct me if I'm wrong. You acknowledge that the Dao de jing makes reference to a sort of "metaphysical" entity. (Presumably you would acknowledge the same in the case of the Zhuangzi -- ?) You also acknowledge (I think) that this entity can be referred to as (indeed, *is* referred to as, in ch. 25) a "DAO4." At this point, I'm not sure where you and I disagree (of whether we do disagree).

Perhaps your claim is that the term "DAO4" is still being used in one of its earlier senses (namely, "way of acting"). In other words, the point of ch. 25 (on your reading) would be that the metaphysical entity has its own way of acting. The problem with this interpretation is that, if that is what the author(s) of the text had wanted to say, I think he (or they) would have written YOU3 DAO4 ("it has a way"), or possibly YI3 WEI2 DAO4 ("[I] regard it as a way") rather than WU2 BU4 ZHI1 QI2 MING, ZI4 ZHI1 YUE1 DAO4 ("I do not know its name, [but I] style it, 'way'").

Note also the end of the same chapter:

(ch. 25, Lau's revised, 1989, trans.)

This is problematic for the anti-metaphysical reading because DAO4 is described as "patterning" (FA3) itself on something distinct from human language, conventions and institutions. I think this part of the chapter is also problematic for your revised interpretation, Steve, because there is no reference here to any metaphysical entity distinct from DAO4. Unless DAO4 is a term for the metaphysical entity referred to earlier in the chapter, it looks like that entity has dropped out of the cosmology. (I take it that "that which is naturally so" [ZI4RAN2] does not refer to a distinct entity, but rather describes the manner in which the DAO4 acts. But let me know if you disagree with this.)

Best wishes,

Date created: 10/28/96
Last modified: 10/28/96
Questions? Contact: Stephen C. Angle